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  • Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

    Background Info:

    I'm currently using SF v5 [since I haven't received my upgrade to SF6] on Win2K. All Win2K service packs through 10 FEB 2002 are installed. The SF5 Language Manager is configured so that language modules for Danish, Dutch, English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and Swedish are included in the setup.exe that is produced.

    Problem #1:

    When the SF5 "Runtime Language" is set to Manual, the Greek text does not display correctly when the setup.exe is executed. This problem first appears in the "Select Language" dialog that is displayed as a consequence of the manual setting for the runtime language. This text does not display correctly in spite of the fact that "Greek" is checked in the Region Options utility. In other words, "Greek" is checked in the "Language settings for system" and the "Your locale (location) is set to "Greek." Also, Greek text is displayed properly within MS Word 2000 regardless of the locale.

    You might find it interesting that Greek text, which I stored in the various fields within the SF5 Screen Manager, is being displayed correctly while all the text labels for the buttons is not displayed correctly. I'm speaking of the text assigned to < Back, Next > and Cancel that provided in the Greek language module installed with SF5.

    Problem #2:

    With the SF5 "Runtime Language" set to Automatic, the setup.exe does not detect the Win2K language setting. It always reverts to the neutral English language configuration.

    Problem #3:

    SF5 does not support Japanese. Is this issue resolved with SF6? Assuming that I have to create my own Japanese language module, I need to know how the text is stored within SF. I realize I can't copy/paste directly from MS Word. Do I need to convert my text to Unicode or MBCS?


    ------------------
    wbrosche

  • #2
    Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

    Hi,

    1) I'm not exactly sure, but are you saying that the Text on the Select Language dialog is not being translated properly? You might want to read Lorne's post here: http://www.indigorose.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000552.html , perhaps you are not setting the systems language properly.

    2) Again read Lorne's post here: http://www.indigorose.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000552.html . Remember you have to change the System locale not the Input locale.

    3) Setup Factory 5.0 did support Japanese; I have been in contact with users in the past who used Japanese in Setup Factory 5.0. As far as version 6.0 is concerned I don't think that there is any problem using Japanese Text. You should be able to copy and paste directly from Word.

    mark.
    MSI Factory The Next Generation Intelligent Setup Builder

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

      Mark,

      I was attempting to be specific about how I configured the Win2K OS [Version 5.00.2195] System Locale. There are two areas on the "General" property page when you first invoke the "Regional Options" utility. These is a pull-down combo box with a static text label of "Your locale (location)" and a list box with a group box around titled "Language settings for the system."

      In the language settings list, I have Greek, Japanese, and Western Europe and United States. In "Your locale", I have selected French (France). The OS has been notified of these options by my selecting the "Apply" button and rebooting the system. The setup.exe does not detect different languages automatically.

      I don't see a response to my question regarding whether the text is stored in Unicode or DBCS. My concern is whether SF is using Unicode and how SF expects to support it on Win9x installations.

      Finally, I just installed SF6 and have noticed considerable changes. Specifically, there is no longer a menu entry for Language Manager and everything has been embedded into a properties page for each screen. I'm curious, was this considered an improvment? Unless I have missed something, this approach requires me to invoke far more steps to manage a multiple language installation. Also, what has happened to the "Automatic" and "Manual" option that was on the Language Manager dialog? The manual feature is extremely important until I resolve the original problem with automatic detection.

      Thanks
      wbrosche

      [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 02-11-2002).]

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

        Mark,

        Point #1.

        Thanks, I am already quite intimate with that Microsoft URL. I used it quite extensively while I was developing my C++ application to run under the languages that I mentioned earlier.

        Point #2:

        Yes, every language displays properly during runtime when I construct [build] the setup.exe with the Language Manger -> Manual radio button selected. This includes the translation of the < Back, Next > and Cancel button labels that I assigned in Screen Manager. More importantly, it also includes the correct text strings from the Language Modules when I hit the cancel button. The reason that I point this out is that SF5 has a dialog already defined that is displayed when you hit the Cancel button at anytime during the setup. To repeat myself, this dialog display text in the expected language when I run a setup.exe that was built with the Language Manager -> Manual radio button selected. Is the manual option still available in SF6? If so, where do I enable the feature?

        Point #3:

        Doesn't SF5 also include the built-in variable %SysLanguage%? I will follow your advice and place this on one of the screens to see what is displayed. I don't have a lot of confidence on this one being detected properly under Win2K because my application is detecting the System Locale properly. You see my application has a single executable and eleven (11) different resource only DLL files that contain the language controlled by the System Locale. While I don't doubt that the language support in SF5 and SF6 work properly, I am disturbed by the fact that the Greek text displayed by SF was garbled when SF displayed the Language Select dialog immediately after setup.exe was invoked. This factor undermines my confidence in the automatic language detection on Win2K since I have followed the advice given at http://www.indigorose.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000552.html with no luck.

        Point #4:

        I understand how language support has changed from SF5 to SF6. Unfortunately, it appears to me that I must invoke three or four additional button clicks for each and every screen to assign a language to a screen. Furthermore, I believe that the pull-down list box that includes the various languages has been removed. If my take on this is correct, then in SF6 I am now responsible for manually looking up an integer value to associate with the SysLangage variable assigned to a screen. In SF5, the software would assign this value from the pull-down list box. Am I missing something or did this feature really go away in SF6?

        Point #5.

        From your response, you have indicated that the language (.lng) files are ASCII. Can I assume that this means SF is using MBCS/DBCS and not Unicode. I believe MBCS/DBCS is the only way you can actually support asian languages using "traditional ASCII" text based files.

        By the way, the "ASCII" text based files will definitely mean that your user's CANNOT simply perform a copy/paste function from MS Word 2K to the language text file. I encountered this problem with my applications with Word 2K because it actually operates using Unicode. I found it necessary to convert my Word document to a MCBS/DBCS format and then copy/paste the text from that file into the resource files.

        Meanwhile, thanks for your responses. While the other issues are a nuisance, the automatic detection is a show stopper. Like we discussed, I'll make an attempt to place the SysLanguage variable in a screen to see if it is being detected properly.

        Thanks!
        wbrosche

        [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 02-11-2002).]

        [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 02-11-2002).]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

          Hi,

          Have you looked at this page: http://<a href="http://www.microsoft...globaldev/</a>? It contains some very useful information on multilingual development.

          If you use the Manual Option (Settings -> Language Manager -> Manual radio button) and select French does the language display properly during runtime?

          Also note that the "Next >" and "< Back" text on the buttons must be translated manually by you in the Screen Manager.

          Setup Factory 6.0 also includes the built-in variable: %SysLanguage% which is set to the systems default language. Try putting this variable on a screen, what does it display during runtime? If it returns 9 then the systems default language is still English.

          The Language support in Setup Factory 5.0 and 6.0 does work properly. Setup Factory 5.0's language support has been used for years by many different users with no problems.

          In Setup Factory 6.0 language files are stored in the "C:\Program Files\Setup Factory 6.0\Languages" directory. This is where you will be able to find the language (.lng) files. These files are ASCII text files and can be opened and translated in a simple text editor like Notepad or within Setup Factory 6.0 under: DESIGN -> GENERAL DESIGN -> LANGUAGES TAB. So to answer your other question, Setup Factory stores all of its text in the ACII format.

          In Setup Factory 6.0 the language function in much the same manner that they did in Setup Factory 5.0, except that you can edit the language files in a separate editor if you want. What you seem to be referring to are the pre-translated screens that are available in Setup Factory 6.0. These are offered simply to make the creation of screen in different language quicker.

          mark.
          MSI Factory The Next Generation Intelligent Setup Builder

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

            Mark,

            I finally got around to looking back into this problem and thought I would provide an update just in case it would help anyone else confused by this topic.

            As you pointed out, SF is indeed capable of distinguishing the system locale so that you can produce a single installation program [setup.exe] that will display all of the languages in which you are interested in supporting.

            For the record, I decided to use Win2K for development because I can change the system locale using the Regional Options found in the Control Panel. It turns out that one of the links you pointed me to [ http://www.indigorose.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000552.html ] was not specific enough for my addled brain that day, so I am posting a message following up with the specific steps required to set the system locale in Win2K and WinXP.

            Now that I have this resolved, I am going to post other messages here about some peculiar behavior I am experiencing with Greek and Japanese. Hope this helps someone else that might be confused.

            --------
            wbrosche


            [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 03-20-2002).]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

              Mark,

              By the way, it also worth mentioning that I upgraded to SF6 when I started testing again, so others should keep that in mind as they review my posts. In general, this means that I am no longer attempting to use the Manual Option [Settings -> Language Manager -> Manual radio button] available in SF5.

              It turns out that you are also correct that I can cut/paste my translated text from MS Word directly to the SF editor. There is, however, one very fine point that I believe is worth mentioning to others. The point is that while I was developing my Greek and Japanese screens, it was necessary for me to configure the system locale for the particular country before I attempted to paste text from MS Word to the SF Editor. If I did not do this, then the text would be garbled when I pasted it to the editor or attempted to preview the screen.

              Based upon this experience, I am assuming that SF6 stores the text using the older multi-byte character set versus Unicode supported by Word 2K. I reached this conclusion because the same text will appear garbled when you view it in the SF6 editor after you change the system locale to another country. For example, the Greek text looks fine in the SF editor while my system locale is configured for Greek. The same text looks garbled in the SF editor when I set my system locale to Japanese or back to any of the Western European and U.S. languages. I believe this explains the problem I was experiencing with the Greek screens when I was using the Manual Option in SF5.

              ------------------
              wbrosche


              [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 03-20-2002).]

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                Mark,

                Now that I have resolved my other issues with multi-language support, I have a few other problems or questions with which I need your assistance. I'm going to place each question in a separate post to ensure that each is answered in turn.

                While testing the installation program [setup.exe] in French, I clicked on the Annuler [Cancel] button to display the Confirm Action dialog. It is interesting that while the static text in the dialog was translated to French, the text labels for the two buttons are displayed using English.

                This was confusing since translations exist in the language file for the phrases Yes and No. By the way, this problem is not limited to French. It occurred in all of the other languages I tested.

                My guess is that SF is using a standard MS MFC control called MessageBox for this dialog. Should this be the case, then SF may be relying too much on Microsoft because this will always be the result if SF is statically linked to MFC instead of dynamically linked to MFC.

                ---------
                wbrosche

                [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 03-20-2002).]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                  Mark,

                  The next problem that I am experiencing is specific to Greek and Japanese. For some reason or another, I cannot read all of the text in the Install Folder and Shortcut Folder screens. Specifically the text in the Install Folder Instructions Text field and the Shortcut Folder General Text field.

                  You can duplicate this problem in English by using more text in this field than SF dialog designer has allocated for the static text. When it is all said and done, either this field on the display could have scrolling enabled or SF could calculate the appropriate dimensions required for the field based upon the number of characters and the corresponding font used to display the text.

                  ------------------
                  wbrosche

                  [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 03-20-2002).]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                    Mark,

                    The previous problem brings up another problem about which I had almost forgotten. Sometimes the translated text for the < Back, Next > and Cancel buttons is larger than the default size of the button displayed by SF.

                    Is there a way to change the size of the buttons?

                    If not, then could SF calculate the required size of the button based upon the phrase. This is a common problem developing MS Windows application as the resolution of the display is changed. I am required to test all my applications at 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768 before I am allowed to release code here.


                    ------------------
                    wbrosche

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                      I do not believe there is a field that I can define a language specific version of the text that is associated with the shortcut placed on the desktop as well as the entries placed in the menus for the application such as Start/Programs/My Application.

                      As you might guess, the name of my application is slightly different depending upon the language in which it is used. I suspect that this is only defined once using the Product Name field in the General Design section.

                      Also, I cannot define the text placed in the menu section for the Uninstall program when this feature is enabled. The word uninstall is definitely not the same in all languages. All things considered, I suppose this is a common problem for at least the %AppDir%, %SCFolderTitle% and %ProductName% variables.

                      Is there a way to change these values based upon the language using the Actions before installing?

                      --------
                      wbrosche


                      [This message has been edited by wbrosche (edited 03-20-2002).]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                        Is there a way that I can disable the progress dialogs displayed between the Ready to Install dialog and the Finished or Installation Complete dialog?

                        Also, I cannot find where to define the string "Initializing setup..." that is displayed with a progress dialog when the installation program [setup.exe] is first invoked.


                        ------------------
                        wbrosche

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                          Hi,

                          1) I believe that you when paste test (Greek or Japanese) it will appear garbled on an English Language system, but if you run that same installation on the correct language the result will look correct.

                          2) As for the message box problem I will look into that, as the text on the buttons should probably be translated properly.

                          3) As of right now there is only a finite amount of space available on the screens. Try editing the text in order to make it shorter. If you have a lot of text, perhaps you can put it on a separate screen?

                          4) Currently there is no way to resize buttons.

                          5) Yes you can change the values of any variable based upon that current users system. Simply use the %SysLanguage% variable. For example:
                          If (%SysLanguage% = 12)
                          %Appdir% = %ProgramFiles%\Mon Produit
                          End If
                          If (%SysLanguage% = 10)
                          %AppDir% = %ProgramFiles%\Mi Producto
                          End if
                          Plus you could simply create your shortcuts based on the value of %SysLanguage% rather then change the value of certain variables.

                          6) There is no way to disable the Progress Dialog during the installation of your files.

                          7) The “Initializing…” string is defined in the language files (*.lng), you can find it by looking for the STAT_INIT variable.

                          mark.
                          MSI Factory The Next Generation Intelligent Setup Builder

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                            Regarding your response to Item 3, I am assuming that you must be pulling my leg. Right? If not, then I find myself thinking about the old Groucho Marx line when the patient says "Doctor it hurts when I do that" and the doctor responds, "Then don't do that!"

                            After all, we are ONLY talking about the standard phrase that SF displays for the Install Folder screen. The static text control this display screen normally contains the text "Setup will install the software to the directory listed in the box below. To install to a different directory, either type in the new path or click Browse to select another directory."

                            Unfortunately, SF cannot display this phrase completely when it is translated to Greek. I'm afraid that I don't view adding another screen as a practical solution since your suggestion effectively means that we must convey less information in the Greek screen than the English screen. This will be very problematic because it has been my experience that it typically requires a more characters to display a phrase in Greek than are required by any other language.

                            As a reminder, you can duplicate this problem in English by simply placing an excessive number of characters in the edit box. If the sizing issue cannot be resolved by SF before compilation, then I would recommend modifying the edit box controls in the screen editor so that they can only accept the number of characters that can actually be displayed in the static text controls. After all, the character size is one of the properties that you can limit on a text edit box from within the resource editor.

                            What will it take for someone to go back the MS Windows Resource Editor and enlarge the dialogs and their controls to allocate more room the static text control being used to display the text entered into the SF screen editors?



                            ------------------
                            wbrosche

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Multi-Language Support? Greek and Japanese Language Module?

                              Hi,

                              No I wasn't pulling your leg, although quoting Grucho Marx did make me laugh.

                              Basically for the time being there will not be any changes to the amount of room that is available on the screens. We have not had very many people complain about the amount of available space, but if it appears to be a problem for many users that we will definitely consider makes some changes.

                              Another solution that you might consider is using the Help Button to display a dialog with more information. Then you can fill the available space with you text, and inform the user that they can press the Help Button for more information. Then use the Help Button to display a message using a SHOW MESSAGE action.

                              mark.
                              MSI Factory The Next Generation Intelligent Setup Builder

                              Comment

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